I made a note the other day when reading through Luke 16 during morning quite time about a set of verses that seemed at the time self-contradictory.  I'm not sure what I was thinking then but I decided to note it down and move on for the time being.  Here are the verses.

So, using some software (Logos Bible Software 4) to do some comparison and find the same teaching in the other gospels.  I found these passages.

In the Old Testament you tithed to God, but the person or group to which you tithed was a representative of God. This is true in all cases but Jacob and Noah.

Abraham tithed to priest of God Most High and the Jews as a nation tithed to the priestly orders within the tribe of Levi. Jacob gave a tenth back to God directly and Noah did as well in his burnt offering of a portion of the animals on the ark. Now I believe that the New Testament does tell us we should tithe, but the physical entity is no longer present on this earth. We cannot tithe to Jesus directly as he is in heaven and although we have an Organized Church, that Organized Church is also not the given receiver of our tithing. The only one who IS a given receiver is Jesus himself. Just as Abram tithed to Melchizedek, so are we to tithe to Jesus.

My father gave me several places to look in the New Testament as to whom we tithe to but I find that those places do not give us a “whom” to which to tithe. Let’s take a look at them.

Mark 12:41-44 (ESV) - And he sat down opposite the treasury and watched the people putting money into the offering box. Many rich people put in large sums. And a poor widow came and put in two small copper coins, which make a penny. And he called his disciples to him and said to them, “Truly, I say to you, this poor widow has put in more than all those who are contributing to the offering box. For they all contributed out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty has put in everything she had, all she had to live on.”


Now this passage I believe is about the heart of tithing, the widow has given out in faith, she has given out with a heart of thankfulness and her offering because it was not only great because of the cost it was to her, but more importantly because of the heart behind the gift.  If she had given out of our poverty in search of a reward, I do not think Jesus would have said what he said.

Acts 4:32-35 (ESV) - Now the full number of those who believed were of one heart and soul, and no one said that any of the things that belonged to him was his own, but they had everything in common. And with great power the apostles were giving their testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great grace was upon them all. There was not a needy person among them, for as many as were owners of lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold and laid it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to each as any had need.

There was no tithe within the body of Christ immediately following the ascension of Jesus into Heaven for the church was not divided by distance, nor was it divided in heart and soul as it is today.  But the church today IS divided in heart and soul and we no longer have apostles chosen by Jesus while Jesus was on the earth living among us.  That is not to say that we do not have apostles living today, for as Paul was chosen to be an apostle by Jesus himself after his ascension, we cannot limit or wall in Jesus' choice of additional apostles throughout the centuries.

Acts 11:27-30 (ESV) - Now in these days prophets came down from Jerusalem to Antioch. And one of them named Agabus stood up and foretold by the Spirit that there would be a great famine over all the world (this took place in the days of Claudius). So the disciples determined, everyone according to his ability, to send relief to the brothers living in Judea. And they did so, sending it to the elders by the hand of Barnabas and Saul.

Here we have a prophetic word of a famine to come and it was determined that God desired an offering to go in relief to Judea.  Is this a tithe?  It could be, yet it is also directed by God via a prophetic message.


I think the following passages are in direct relation to the prophetic word that is mentioned in Acts.  I think at this time, the famine in Judea is happening and this is the continuation of the offering to support Christians in Judea.  Please correct me if I'm wrong in the time line, though I do not think I am wrong in the circumstance.



2 Corinthians 8:1-5 (ESV) - We want you to know, brothers, about the grace of God that has been given among the churches of Macedonia, for in a severe test of affliction, their abundance of joy and their extreme poverty have overflowed in a wealth of generosity on their part. For they gave according to their means, as I can testify, and beyond their means, of their own accord, begging us earnestly for the favor of taking part in the relief of the saints— and this, not as we expected, but they gave themselves first to the Lord and then by the will of God to us.

2 Corinthians 8:8-14 (ESV) - I say this not as a command, but to prove by the earnestness of others that your love also is genuine. For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor, so that you by his poverty might become rich. And in this matter I give my judgment: this benefits you, who a year ago started not only to do this work but also to desire to do it. So now finish doing it as well, so that your readiness in desiring it may be matched by your completing it out of what you have. For if the readiness is there, it is acceptable according to what a person has, not according to what he does not have. For I do not mean that others should be eased and you burdened, but that as a matter of fairness your abundance at the present time should supply their need, so that their abundance may supply your need, that there may be fairness.

 2 Corinthians 8:19 (ESV) - And not only that, but he has been appointed by the churches to travel with us as we carry out this act of grace that is being ministered by us, for the glory of the Lord himself and to show our good will.

2 Corinthians 9:6-9 (ESV) - The point is this: whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that having all sufficiency in all things at all times, you may abound in every good work. As it is written, “He has distributed freely, he has given to the poor; his righteousness endures forever.”
 

2 Corinthians 9:13-15 (ESV) - By their approval of this service, they will glorify God because of your submission flowing from your confession of the gospel of Christ, and the generosity of your contribution for them and for all others, while they long for you and pray for you, because of the surpassing grace of God upon you. Thanks be to God for his inexpressible gift!

2 Corinthians is a treasure in the spirit of giving.


And yet throughout these passages we see no ordered tithing to the Church (there isn't an organized one to give to) nor any admonishments that you have to give but rather we see that God desires the gift, the tithe out of a heart of giving, out of an inborn desire inspired by God himself and directed by God himself.  This makes sense as well.  Consider Matthew.

Matthew 25:34-45 (ESV) - Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’ “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’


Has not Jesus himself told us to whom we should entrust our tithe?  To those with need! But it's not just those with need, it is those with need as directed by God himself.  So, I must ask, in usurping the role of Jesus himself as the receiver of the tithe, does the Church lift itself up as a false idol, even if unknowingly?  

Christians do not have a priesthood for our priest is Jesus alone, he is the priest of God Most High eternally.  Does the Church, by stepping in and taking on the role of a priesthood, encouraging the giving of tithes to that priesthood and using that tithe for the funding of the church in addition to the helping of the "brothers" set itself up in place of Jesus.  Why have modern Christians created a "Law" in reflection of Mosaic Law when Jesus has already fulfilled that Law.  Why do modern Christians place themselves, voluntarily underneath a Law that Jesus himself has raised us above by writing our names in Heaven?



Something to think about at least.  


Now, I'm not sure that this means that tithing to your church is wrong necessarily. Jesus is greater than everything, so if he directs someone to tithe to the church, it is Gods will and therefor the right and holy thing to do.  However, if someone just accepts the teaching and direction of the church to tithe to it, is that really God's will, or has, however unintentional, the church directed you to sin.  Also I must consider, if you never seek God's will in tithing, do you not yourself sin against God, do you not rebel against him in someway for YOU have chosen the direction of HIS portion rather than him directing his portion as he sees fit.


Grace however must rule it all, for God desires mercy above justice.  If I mishear the choice of God for my tithe, I must remember that God directs all things for the glory of God.

I must admit first and foremost that I do not tithe as yet.  I have not tithed in the past more than the change in my pocket to not feel out of place.  That being the case I can reliably say, I have never tithed in my life.  Yet... at the same time, the tithe is present throughout the Old Testament and within the New Testament as well.  My wife and I plan to start tithing the first of the year, but as that time approaches, I find that I want to be sure of why I tithe and to whom I do tithe, not just spiritually, but physically as well.  Given the lack of belief I have found within the organized church for the spiritual reality, I was not sure that tithing to my church was right to do.

So I’ve been scouring the Old and New Testament using search phrases and key words at ESV.org to find passages and versus that relate to tithing and relate to giving an offering back to God.  I even called my parents who walked me through the second part of my question somewhat, and here I’ll take what they gave me and see how it plays out in my own understanding and what the Holy Spirit may dine to give me.

My quest started out in places that I’ve already read.  I haven’t read the entire bible yet and really can only speak with any kind of real knowledge on those areas that I have read.  But, I remember the first tithe, or so I thought was the first tithe.

Genesis 14:18-20 - And Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine. (He was priest of God Most High) and he blessed him (Abram) and said,
       “Blessed be Abram by God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth;
        And blessed be God Most High, who has delivered your enemies into your hand!”
 And Abram gave him (Melchizedek) a tenth of everything.

This was before the Law of Moses.  The second tithe was the tithe of Jacob.

Genesis 28:20-22 – Then Jacob made a vow, saying, “If God will be with me and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat and clothing to wear, so that I come again to my father’s house in peace, then the Lord shall be my God, and this stone, which I have set up for a pillar, shall be God’s house. And of all that you give me I will give a full tenth to you.

This is the foundation of tithing in the Old Testament.  Jacob set the relationship and it was confirmed by God in the Law of Moses found elsewhere in Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy.  I haven’t got to all of those books yet but a search finds multiple references to tithing within the Old Testament.

This got me thinking, was the first tithe really Abram to Melchizedek?  That tithe was before the Law given to Moses, which was a tithe not out of duty, but out of thankfulness.  I scoured back through Genesis looking.

Genesis 8:20-22 – Then Noah built an alter to the Lord and took some of every clean animal and some of every clean bird and offered burnt offerings on the altar.  And when the Lord smelled the pleasing aroma, the Lord said in his heart, “I will never again curse the ground because of man, for the intention of man’s heart is even from his youth. Neither will I ever again strike down every living creature as I have done. While the earth remains, seedtime and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter, day and night, shall not cease.”

This was not a sacrificial offering for blood atonement; this was a giving of a portion of all in Noah’s possession to the Lord in thankfulness for what the Lord had done for him!  It’s not like Noah had money after the flood, his value his coin was what was in the Ark.  Noah was the first to tithe… wasn’t he?

Genesis 4:3-5 – In the course of time Cain brought to the Lord an offering of the fruit of the ground, and Abel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat portions.  And the Lord had regard for Abel and his offering, but for Cain and his offering he had no regard. So Cain was very angry, and his face fell.

There is something different here then there is with Noah and with the tithing as prescribed in the Law of Moses.  Tithing in the Law held the produce of the fields to be a good offering; it was only with the offering for atonement that the firstborn animal was required.  God had no regard for Cain’s offering, thus this was an offering for atonement.  The story of Noah made no distinction, made no reference to the first born of every animal or the firstborn of the sheep or lamb or oxen.  It merely said “some of every clean animal and some of every bird”.  So, at least within the Old Testament accounting, Noah was the first to tithe.

The act of tithing is well documented and prescribed within the Old Testament, but Jesus was the fulfillment of the Law, he was the one who was greater than the Law and in him so are we greater than the Law.  So, as Christians, are we really supposed to be tithing?  The New Testament is eerily silent on this subject, except for one rather important piece.

Hebrews 7:1-28- link

I would quote the entire chapter here if it wouldn’t be so lengthy but it comes down to this.  Jesus is of the priestly order of Melchizedek, that is, he is priest of God Most High and priest because of “the power of an indestructible life”

So we have this:

• Tithing occurred before Abraham with Noah out of a heart of thankfulness.
• Abraham tithed to Melchizedek, priest of God Most High out of a heart of thankfulness.
• Jacob made a vow with God to give a tenth and set up the foundation of the Law of Tithing.
• God, through the Law of Moses solidified that vow with holy commandments.
• The Kings of Israel also took a tenth as a tithe for provisioning the government.
• Jesus came and fulfilled the Law of Moses and the older debt of sin at the same time.
• Jesus is priest of God Most High as was Melchizedek.
• Jesus was of the order of Melchizedek.
• And Abraham tithed to Melchizedek out of a heart of thankfulness
• Jesus was God in Flesh
• And Noah tithed a burnt offering to God out of a heart of thankfulness.

So tithing while being prescribed in the Law of Moses is before the Law of Moses as Jesus, being the fulfillment of the Law of Moses is THE priest of God Most High of a priestly order that is older than the Law of Moses.

A follower of Christ should desire to tithe out of a heart of thankfulness!  It is an inborn response to the love of Jesus himself.

Now, I got this all when I called my parents, or not really got it all but it solidified in my mind as I was speaking to my father. But this only answers the first part of my question.

To tithe or not to tithe…

I choose to tithe.  Now, whom do I tithe to?

Well, Dad gave me some advice, direction and verses and passages to look into, but I haven’t done that yet.  I trust my Father, he is wise and in touch with God, but… I haven’t looked yet for myself.  So, I guess you’ll find out after I do.

Read: Luke 9&10

Through out my experience in the church, doing the Lord's work has been the focus of being a good Christian, of being close to God.  If you where out spreading the gospel (which I didn't really do), if you were out feeding the hungry, ministering to those in need, praying with those who wanted prayer.  Those all were signs that you where a "Good Christian"

My Mom put me onto a web site. The School of Christ run by Chip Brogden. I have read some of his open letters and I have listened to one of his webinars, the first one on Ephesians.  It is a wonderful lesson and I would recommend it to anyone.  Well, in exploring his site yesterday I ran accross this open letter.

Is Jesus enough?

Take a moment and go read it.
...
...
...
...
Done? No? Go finish it.
...
...
...
...
Done now?  Cool, I'll continue.

I started reading that last night but didn't finish it.  I read it again, the entire thing this morning.  And when I opened up my bible to do my quite time I read through this passage in Luke.

Luke 10:38-42 - Now as they went on their way, Jesus entered a village. And a woman named Martha welcomed him into her house.  And she had a sister called Mary, who sat at the Lord's feet and listened to his teaching.  But Martha was distracted with much serving.  And she went up to him and said, "Lord, do you not care that my sister has left me to serve alone?  Tell her then to help me." But the Lord answered her, "Martha, Martha, you are anxious and troubled about many things, but one thing is necessary.  Mary has chosen the good portion, which will not be taken away from her."

And I read that and I knew, it is not our works for him that he desires most from us, it is our desire for him that he desires.  It is us sitting at his feet and listening to him.  Now, don't get me wrong, does this negate our commission to go out and  perfect our faith through works?  No!  far be it.  Its a matter of perspective.  If our works and position within the body of Christ is greater than Christ himself, we have lost focus of the fact that there is NOTHING greater than Christ.  Our first love, our first desire is to be with Christ.  And when he chooses to send us out to do his work, it is then a continuation of being with him.  When we go out and do his work for the sake of that work, it is an act of drawing away from him.

Something else that came across my conscience while reading today.  Something that I think I need to announce some culpability in.  When I had my conversation with the nice man, I became offended when he said that those who focus on the devils (I think that word is used to dismiss the reality of the enemy) start to see them around every corner.  Well, I was greatly offended by that, but regardless of the naivette this man showed, he was right in something and I need to own up to that.

Luke 10:29 - Nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.

Yes we have authority and power of evil spirits, Yes we have signs that will accompany us, Yes we are, or are becoming powerful warriors for Heaven, but this is not things to rejoice over, these are not things that should be glorified or thought of as great.  The things to rejoice over, the things to be glorified and thought of as Great is that our names are written in heaven...

no, not our names,

that is imagery that is easily lost today.  That would make us think in todays age that there is a little roll call book sitting in heaven with our name in it. And its much more powerful and potent and real than that.

When we call on the name of Jesus, we are calling on JESUS himself.  His name and he are synonymous. 

So when Jesus says that our name is written in heaven, he is saying to US that we are in heaven with him, sitting at his feat and glorifying, ministering to, and being ministered by God and Heaven and most importantly Jesus.  Even now as we live here on this earth, we are ALSO in heaven now, our soul is redeemed and there even NOW. 

Seems impossible doesn't it.  Well we call on the name of Jesus and he is in heaven.  But when we call on the name of Jesus he is here NOW with us.  When we call on his name and cast a demon out, it leaves because the victor has just entered the playing field. It leaves because Jesus is standing in front of us before the enemy as the victory just as he stands in front of us before God as our redeemer.

Oh praise God.  I didn't fully understand that till I wrote it down here.  The name isn't some catechism to call, it is Jesus himself we are calling to be with us and fight with us.  We go into battle side by side every single time against the enemy with the one being in all the universe who Can Not Lose!

Lord, thank you for being the ever present victor and here with us at the calling of your name.  Give us the grace, grow more in us the desire not to do your works, but to be in your presence.

Where two or more are gathered in my name, so there will I be! 

A couple of days ago I reached out to my church to see if they had anyone that could help with spiritual warfare and healing.  Saturday, I met with the man my church pastor directed me to.  He was a nice man, conscientious, courteous, fatherly and kind. 

I've only been a Christian a couple of months, I have been around the Christian world and the culture and been familiar with many things in the bible.  I have been churched almost my entire life other than the years towards the end of college till recently.  I did not attend a church from 2004 to 2008 but my parents have always been there and they have always sent blessings towards me and been an example of what a true Christian is.

So since I've become a Christian in truth rather than one in culture, I have been desperate and desirous and passionately trying to know Jesus more and to be and do what he says.  And in truth, its not really about being who he says to be, but knowing and loving Jesus that drives a desire to follow him and do what he says.  I have yet to be baptized in water, and yet to be baptized in the Holy Spirit, yet like the apostles whom Jesus sent out to preach the good news, to heal and to cast out demons in his name, I have cast out demons in his name, I have shared the good news, I have not healed to my knowledge.  But, I know that should it be required, should I be called upon to do it, I will be graced to instigate the healing of someone by the name of Jesus and the power of the Holy Spirit.

It is not me, but God in me that does these things, as Paul said.

Back to this nice man.  So, I had a sit down with him at Panera Bread and related all of what has happened the last few months, what is happening with other things in my life.  Why I think I need some help and intercession and help with some spiritual warfare and healing. I was sorely disappointed with his response.  I want to talk about it a little.

He started off by drawing a scale on a piece of paper.  Looked something like this.

He said, this is a scale of your relationship ship with God, where do you think you are on this?

Well, I got confused on what he was talking about.  I told him, 3 months ago, I was a 0 but now somewhere above 0.  He quickly corrected me.

"You have accepted Jesus as your savior right"
"Yes"
"Well, then your a 10, relationship wise, its all or nothing, either your a 0 or a 10"

Ah... yah of course, but I wasn't thinking positional relationship, I was thinking walk relationship, faith, knowledge, blessing all that. I didn't say that to him however because I got what he was talking about.

He drew a second scale.

"This is the scale of your discipleship, where do you think you are on that? "
"Well, I thought that was what you where referring to with your first scale, sorry I was confused"

Well it didn't really come out like that, was more fluid and conversational of talking over one another quickly but I hope you all get the idea.

He then proceeded to explain how the level of discipleship fluctuates over time, sometimes it rises sharply, sometimes it plateas for a while, sometimes it falls, basically giving a verbal representation of something like this:
Now I'm listening to all of this, and I'm thinking.  Am I an idiot?  Did I contact them to talk about being a good Christian?  Did I contact them, and call on them to get a salvation message?

No, I did not. 

I contacted them to get help with attacks from the enemy, I contacted them to seek healing for my loved ones that as yet I don't have the grace to give myself, or don't have the knowledge or communication relationship with the Holy Spirit to know if, how, why, when, where to do it.  And this nice man is telling me about something completely different.

In all of this, he has not mentioned demons, or angels or even Jesus and his casting out.  He focuses on Romans 12:1-8 and tells me that I should focus there and work on myself and not to focus on devils and demons cause I'll see them around every corner.

I don't really know what to say now about this, but ... durring all of this, there was no potency to him, there was no feeling of life that I get when I am around my parents, or in the presence of someone who IS a true Christian and connected fully with the Holy Spirit.  The God of this man, is my God, yet it is a blunted God. His sword and his faith is a blunted sword and a blunted faith.  His Jesus is a truncated Jesus, one who did not cast demons out, one who did not command us to cast demons out, one who only gave us the commision to go out into the world and spread the gospel, but the signs, who needs them!

It was suggested that I do a 1 on 1 Mentorship with somebody from the Church, but how can I find life, how can I fill myself with living water from a stagnant well?  If my church can not believe in the existance of demons, of the enemy, of the personified sin that crouches at our door, then how can it do the job of freeing the captives, how can it do the job of breaking the chains of oppression.

I'm comming to believe that the "Church" in America is under influence of The Culutre of Christianity. And that being blunts the belief of believers by creating unbelief in the full and powerful being of Jesus.

Take away your truncated savior, give me the full being of Jesus. The one who in anger overturned the moneylenders, the one who said "Get behind me Satan" to his own apostle, the one who said, oh ye of little faith! The one who cast demons out, healed the sick and lame, preached the hard word and was the narrow path.

Jesus rewarded faith, and he rewarded faith many fold.  Time and again, men and women would come up to Jesus and they would be healed because they had faith in him.  Their faith wasn't the kind of faith that said. "Jesus is Lord" and then went about their day.  Their faith was the Faith that required action.  They sought to touch him, they saught to get his attention.  Men were let down through roofs, a women sought only to touch the edge of his robe, a Centurion said to him "You are a man with authority, but say the word and my servant will be healed"  And in each time, Jesus said to them "Your faith has healed you."  It wasn't him healing them but rather that releasing of his healing power because their faith turned on the water sprigot.

Faith requires action! 

My Jesus is the Jesus who knew his enemy was real and didn't ignore it.  My Jesus was the Jesus who won victory of that enemy, defeated it and sits at the right hand of God.  My Jesus is the Jesus who has given me the tools and the authority to fight that enemy directly because he has given me his name, he has given me his sword, he has given me his shield.

Paul said put on the full armor of the Lord.  Well you don't need armor if all your going to do is pray to God all day long and speak Gods name and the gospel.  You don't need armor if your never actually going to go and FIGHT the enemy.  You don't need armor if you don't even acknowledge the existence of the enemy being all around you.

That nice man was wrong though.  Its not about discipleship.  It has never been about discipleship.  Its about faith.  I'm not here to be a disciple, I'm not here to follow the teachings of Jesus.  I'm here to follow Jesus himself!  I have faith not in the teachings of Jesus, or in the Bible, or in what I hear from pastors or teachers or other Christians. I have faith in Jesus and Jesus alone.

Lord Jesus, bring me to those who also have faith in you and you alone and let me have fellowship with them and let us be as Iron sharpening Iron that we may follow YOU.